HIGHERORBIT
Recorded in the back of a legal retail Cannabis dispensary . Sean & Charlie Kady - owners, explore the Canadian cannabis market with Industry leaders, master growers, product innovators and experts in hash, extracts, beverages and a whole lot of weed.
HIGHERORBIT
Sean & Charlie See The Forest Through The Treez with Ben Padovani
We're beyond thrilled to have a master grower with us; Ben Pandovani - Treez Botanicals and Siege Cannabis, sharing the rich tapestry of his journey from basement cultivator to cannabis industry up and comer. His story is one of a vision scaled to reality, marked by a passion for quality and innovation, from Permanent Marker and Apple Fritter crosses to the classic Himalayan Gold. As they reminisce about partnerships that paved the way from the black market shadows to the legal limelight, our guest offers a treasure trove of insights on the cultivation craft, vertical farming, and the collaborative spirit fueling the industry's growth.
Wrapping up with a heart-to-heart as we explore the personal side of the cultivation world, from juggling the demands of parenting to the backing of our ever-supportive spouses. We delve into a candid discussion about the future of cannabis strains, the nuances of growing mediums, and the potent effects they can have on the final product. The conversation rounds off facing the gritty realities of excise taxes and regulatory mazes, with a glimmer of hope for the Ontario market, where innovation continues to sprout amidst the tangles of the industry's challenges.
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Or send us an email: info@higherorbit.ca.
Thank you for your unwavering support. We're excited to bring you even more awe-inspiring content in the near future.
Minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8 and 10, start 4, 3, 2, 1. Hola, Carlitos.
Speaker 2:What's up, buddy?
Speaker 1:I'm John and I'm Charlie, and this is Iron man. I don't know. I went off the radar. I told you I was going to be something different.
Speaker 2:I love it buddy Hola how are you?
Speaker 1:Muy bien, buenas noches. It's all our international fans. Welcome to the back of the shop. We're here in another episode of Chirobit. I'm not even that stoned.
Speaker 2:He's stoned for a loop, but we're firing it up. Just me and Sean to start, but we do have an awesome guest to bring on in a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, another master grower, I'll just leave it there. We'll leave it there. We'll leave you guessing for a second, but another master grower will please have this. Keep the suspense going. Keep the suspense going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we get the rare occasion of just shooting the shit, you and me. It doesn't happen too often, does it?
Speaker 1:No, no, I think we're going to try and do that a little bit more, coming up too in the next little bit, right? Or at least my understanding is that's the goal anyway. So look forward to me and Charlie just grinding it out and talking a little bit more about what we do, and what's going on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, I think we should do one where we just like each crush a case of sheesh and see what happens.
Speaker 1:I know what'll happen One of us will be in the toilet. I don't want to be mean now, maybe not with the sheesh, but I know that it's a lot of sugar for it.
Speaker 1:I will say maybe not the sugar in general. Yeah, but I think there's something of the process with that. I went to an event once and I had to be too many of those and I just it didn't work out. We'll leave it there. I was not feeling great and I think it's just because they're not meant to be consumed at that velocity. If that meant you wouldn't have two or three, not like seven or eight or nine.
Speaker 2:No, I feel terrible. I can only imagine I usually cut it off around three, if I can make it that far.
Speaker 1:What did you want to kick it off with?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there's like lots of stuff to talk about. I mean, considering our kind of updates, we're at a funny spot. You and me kind of been running around again playing that game that we played almost three years ago more than that.
Speaker 1:Oh, like trying to find a space right now, I'm just running into the same bullshit with the people that it's a joke. It's an absolute joke. The old Italian guys and the Greek guys, you don't understand our business and don't want anything to do with it. It's everybody.
Speaker 2:Nobody wants us to succeed. It's a bizarre occurrence, like just to be, you know, participating and seeing it unfold in real time, and I think there's a great segue in all the other things because there's so many you know it's brutal too not even a callback.
Speaker 1:I feel like a lot of people have been sending a lot of emails and just no response and I'm like that's hilarious.
Speaker 2:I don't need to call it a back, not even professional right, like, exactly Like. How disrespectful is that? It's just unbelievable. It's been many, many years that it's been legal Four years since we started doing this.
Speaker 1:I didn't think it was going to be a little bit different and I thought that, like once I had already had a location in a business that's established, that's thriving and stuff that they would be like more open to. You know, hearing us out, I guess, but so far not so much. Any of our listeners know any commercial landlords that want to rent to fine entrepreneurs like ourselves? You let us know. Okay, buddy, we'll do it the hard way. We'll do it the hard way. You named it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess that the other big news that dropped today was the fact that the CRA is starting to garnish payment from LPs.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're talking tax, the big aubergine that they're breaking out on the licensed producers.
Speaker 2:It's pretty huge news, I mean for anyone who doesn't really know what's going on. I mean, certainly tax could use a revisit in terms of how it's a part of the business, in terms of how it's applied to the cannabis industry. But it's like we said, like you can't avoid it. That's the parameter that exists Pay your taxes death and taxes.
Speaker 1:So am I right Like? So the idea is it would be like the Provincial Board, say the Alberta Board, the BC Board, the Ontario Cannabis Store in our province. They're going to garnish from their payment back to these LPs.
Speaker 2:Essentially, so the. Cra is like oh, ocs LP XYZ, they owe like $5 million in tax. Yep, what do they have in your inventory? What do?
Speaker 1:you owe them An excise and all the stamped product that they have.
Speaker 2:No it's just literally their payment that they're supposed to receive. Got it, Got to get it. Okay, it's like you said. It's the ultimate aubergine buddy For people who don't know. I used to work in the bank and I used to be able to see that, and it's punishment.
Speaker 1:It's just all of a sudden your money is jacked, it's gone. It was an account right or whatever. You got it, we're taking that from you. Yeah, Punished buddy.
Speaker 2:So we're in a cash flow business, I think that the number was too.
Speaker 1:I think there's about 75% of licensed producers. I'm pretty sure that I read that number All right Behind on excise tax, which doesn't really surprise me that much. I do know I heard I was talking to a lawyer because I'm part of that normal group, the national organization for marijuana reform law, nice. He said that, yeah, they're going to have to lobby to basically not do that, but that there's nothing. He was like is there anything that the license producers can do to kind of delay this? And he was like not really Basically, you're right, the ultimate. Yeah, that's it. They were put on notice, these guys. They probably swung it out.
Speaker 2:I mean it's tough. Again, like I said, I probably don't know enough about it. I'm not sure about it. It's just a little bit of a surprise, I'm not sure about it. It's a little bit of a surprise, I'm not sure about it, I'm not sure, I'm just not sure, I'm not sure. I mean, you know, I'm not sure about it. I don't know if I know that yet. I don't think I know that yet.
Speaker 2:I'm just wondering about the Like the nuance of how the tax is and it should get relooked at. But the government's just another big business. So like they need, they need their peace, right. Like we're still catching up on a lot of things, a lot of big issues, and you know we talk about it too. Like cannabis kind of gets kicked way down the line board.
Speaker 2:Another interesting thing too, just off the top of my head here there was some new data released, stats can, related to cannabis and the size of the market, and they're estimating that the rec and med market to be about five billion. Okay, with the illicit to be conservatively around 30 to 50 percent, which is such a huge range. And I mean, like I studied stats, at the end of the day, you can make up whatever fucking numbers you want to make up. It's very easy to Manipulate those and, at the end of the day too, with something like the black market, it's pretty impossible to put your finger on it. It's like once you try to measure it, it's changed and the reality is probably have no fucking idea how big it really is. And again, they have no reason to really address it either. Right, they created an industry that's like by all means humming along for them, everyone in the government's fucking printing, but on the private sector that's kind of you know, eats the shit sandwiches. It's, it's tough.
Speaker 1:It is really tough. Um, I was actually thinking I don't know. Relating Germany like decriminalized simple possession yeah, that's huge. No, that's massive no and apparently I got clarification on it, but ability to form cannabis clubs apparently is gonna be in a of importance, hmm, which I thought was an interesting approach. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'll have to wait for more, but I was decriminalization, simple possession, home cultivation with the ability to form cannabis clubs. Hmm, yeah, that's what I heard an increased medical access, so that's more. It's not like full legalization. I'm a wreck yet, but that does sound pretty dope and I wonder what that means. I've never actually, I've only been to Germany once, but I wonder. I'd love to talk to some Germans about that.
Speaker 2:I don't really know much about it either, but I know that they're taking a similar stance and really trying to keep it out of the hands of young people. You know, as they should I also. I think most of the weed comes from Canada. I was gonna say they must be growing some pretty fire wheat over there too.
Speaker 1:I'd have to think I was also thinking how funny it is that we have such an oversupply and we're exporting all the weeds still. And what happens when all these companies legalize?
Speaker 2:the dust forget it.
Speaker 1:We're not paying you your taxes for your old car, for your old garbage that you're shipping over here from Canada. Sorry, I hate to be mean, but you know stuff in the vault that they probably can't move also.
Speaker 2:It's true. It the same thing happens here, man.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you get a box and you're like man well, you just know I'm excited out and curious to know what our guest is gonna think about it.
Speaker 2:I was asking about that. Yeah that's definitely. We can kind of get into that for sure. There was also, I Mean, I think it was kind of in the works for a while. It was a little bit fuzzy and and cloudy in terms of what it means and what it's even meant to do, but the new kind of secret Strategy table was formed. We kind of know you know who's in there now, but it's it's the innovation, science and economic development forum.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so this was the good. This is the board that was put together by the government of Canada, that's you got it, so you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's interesting. I don't know the government. Again, I think it's a government, but basically my understanding is they're trying to get leaders in the industry to come to the table and be like you guys Need to figure out all your shit, because they're heads up their ass and they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
Speaker 1:I think our board he goes heading it, if I'm not mistaken, mr Mr Alves yeah, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of big like top-end players. Organogram CEO, I think Rai Schrofner over at was there any independence at all on this board? No.
Speaker 2:I went there, buddy.
Speaker 1:I guess you're right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought they wouldn't have one squeezes on small business man. I did see like on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:There was like a big peanut gallery regarding it, though, so that was funny. I guess people thought it was like a very obvious non attempts to make it. We'll see inclusive.
Speaker 2:But we'll see, man. I mean, you never know. There's definitely some varying interests there. It's a broad selection. I think a lot of them are like the CEOs or higher-ups at LPs, which of course is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:So my my understanding, though, the basic premise of the council is to Communicate what they need to succeed, kind of thing, and hopefully move, move it forward, move the needle forward in theory.
Speaker 2:Again, it's something set up without a clear agenda, like there's not really a set. What's the word I'm looking for? Mandate, as far as I know. But you know, looking on the positive side of things, you know I've been trying to be less cynical these days. It's certainly a step in the right direction, right? I mean, I don't know a lot of the individuals. What do you got there?
Speaker 1:I've been really into the chem doser. I'm gonna shout at that out before I don't think so. East can. Don't sleep on east can. I'm really good cure to it and that's a funky Terps for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like that, a kemi gassiness to it and I thought they did it. We're talking about this, so I don't know. Also find it's like a cerebral high and I don't crash too hard. Keeps it going for the cat, the chem doser and just kind of chem dog straightens in general. I just love San Fernando Valley. Oh gee, have a lot of chem dog and chem dog and chem dog. Oh gee, and that's where gas. There's a lot of gas salary kind of gas chemie. I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not a lineage expert, but I feel like that's uh, it's a gangster strain, but yeah, just to circle back to that like it's gotta be no, no, you're good. It is definitely a step in the right direction. You know who knows what Agendas are at play, right, like certainly you know. You see the head of Canada command and you're like, well, fuck, guys got, I think, the biggest network of stores which, by the way, across the nation we're now up to 3684 stores, legal Stores, across Canada cool.
Speaker 1:I mean just quite close to like 4,000 if you include the illegal ones. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Who knows hard to count right. That's fucking pop-up every day.
Speaker 2:Oh Sun says that now a lot, a lot of shitty retailers out there, though Sorry, I just got to say it Lot of a lot of shitty retailers. Yeah, there are. There are shitty menus out there. There are some shitty menus, yeah, no, I mean again for those who don't know, that's why this store exists, cosmic Charlie's, like. I've just never really come into a store where I felt like it suited my needs and what I wanted in an experience, and I mean, certainly there are good Operators, there's good retail stores. There aren't some good menus to, though, of course, I've been impressed a lot of people have figured it out.
Speaker 2:It's not like we have the, the special sauce, not like a secret recipe, but there's certain level of opinion that goes into it. And yeah, you know, like I, just it's crazy how many I Guess kind of corporate dust stores I would call them corporate dusties, yeah who do the pay-to-play and it's it continues to kind of fuck up the market with perpetual dust Kind of cycling through the system like spinach and tweed. I Wasn't gonna name names, yeah you're good, I hate spinach organogram.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we sell a lot of organogram there.
Speaker 2:We do, it sells, yeah, yeah, you can't be denied. You know, again I want it's hard because I'm trying to tow a fine line, because I've always been adamant about you know, smoke what you want, smoke what you can afford. It is what it is. But when you have players kind of operating and I guess a system that really comes from alcohol, as far as I know when it's literally here's money, bring in my product and then you have the kickback, basically Way of doing things, you got it. So you know, it's again, it's just continuing the cycle, it's continuing the flow of their old I will say I remember before it was like.
Speaker 1:I don't remember, though, charlie. That has been a shift in mentality, that like we wouldn't even get offered those deals, and now at least we get offered them. Yeah, no, we knew it was happening, but it was like it was all like oh no, it's not happening though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, closed doors, it was, that's right, and now it happens for big stores people just coming in.
Speaker 1:They offer us those same deals too, so but it's so different for us at scale.
Speaker 2:Fraction to what?
Speaker 1:they get.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I won't name the retailer, but I remember a retailer telling me every time a submit story gets like 10 to 15 grant right off the top and that's like you know that's probably close to maybe what we spend average. It really depends.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we do fat orders and they're 30, but also find it funny, and it's like we're not allowed to induce customers into buying weed, but that's basically an inducement to buy their weed. So like that's kind of funny. This kind of an irony there isn't it.
Speaker 2:It's a joke right, it's a fucking joke.
Speaker 1:I don't know I kind of thought as it is, so I thought that was pretty pretty funny.
Speaker 2:but again, you know, like even going up to how the data works, and it seems like a lot of key decision-makers use data, just you know, as the, the holy source, and so, yeah, when you know your tweets and your Huge LPs are moving weight because of these systems, it's perpetually keeping it in the system. It's blocking other people from getting in there, although the OCS has said that they and they, to be fair do a pretty good job at trying to be fair and bringing people in. What is this? The Camdozer?
Speaker 1:So camey and sour yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm good, right, let's see what the showrunner thinks. He thought I'd smell like a turkey dinner.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, that's the say, the sage and the Sour, and a sherbet sour, sherbet sour. That was from Eddie hippie, it's from Dylan. Oh Okay, got you, got you. It tastes pretty good though, but it does. There's something cheesy about it. I think that's what the off-putting thing is in there, yeah, but it almost reminds me of like an all-dress chip, like an all-terped weed. That's what it should be called. All terps, in my opinion, but we'll roll that later.
Speaker 2:Man, you gotta love the plant. It's the natural form of these funky ass flavors. Yeah, so delicious, so delicious, yeah, sorry, no, yeah, you threw me off track a little bit.
Speaker 1:All right, sorry, ocs you're pissed off.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm not that pissed off. Oh yeah, the OCS getting better.
Speaker 1:You know they're we, they get induced. These other stores get induced. We don't get it. We're not allowed to induce people.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, it's so strange, like really now to even going to the point of, you know, selling and getting kickbacks is getting more aggressive because people can't move their shit. And so now and we see it on a smaller scale you bring in too much shit. They have the hugest warehouse, the biggest warehouse of cannabis on the planet. They have old, ancient boxes of dust and then you cycle it in and they get pepper you one and they're like oh hey, months, that's a shame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, what I didn't realize too and that's a funny one is that I didn't realize that, um, is it nine months in Ontario? Everywhere else is less, no way, not cool.
Speaker 2:Well, that's because.
Speaker 1:They over saturate themselves we talk about this all posted and their rules are different. Different from it's nine months from package and I think for some of these guys I think it's six months from when they receive it or say they probably have half the skews but they don't hold, they don't allow to receive things that are more than three months old. You feel me? Where is the OCS will take stuff. They have half the skews, though, and we're nice that they're gonna sell it before the nine months comes up.
Speaker 2:OCS, I think, is approaching four thousand and you know, even it's just the nature of saturating yourself. You're gonna sit on stuff and it's just it's like a little poison, because whatever happens is either we get stuck bag holding and you know, we got a doggy. Now we're selling it at a cost or at a loss because I don't want to rip someone off or they punish the LP and they're like, oh, the nine months elapsed, I'm not gonna sell it and push it on our Partners as you love. You love that word that was yes, calls us to partners. And then they punish them and they say, buddy, I'm a boxy later, pretty much. And then what do they fucking do with it? They probably repack it into some weird rotational skew which honestly I'm rotational skews. I don't?
Speaker 1:we don't know why sometimes. I know I really like them to begin with, but maybe we'll leave it there and talk when we come back. Yeah, I'm gonna smoke this chemo. Is there maybe a rosin had? Grab yourself with a special. We got a guy, got herself a can of sheesh. Sit back, relax. We'll be back With a very special guest. Don't forget to follow us at higher orbit. Smash the subscribe like button, please tell a friend.
Speaker 2:We really appreciate it. Thanks for listening, guys. We'll be back. Welcome back in the back of the shop still open.
Speaker 1:I Didn't know we're gonna start, I mean the cooking stuff. I'm just joking, I really don't care. We got our special guest here. If anybody was paying attention watching on YouTube. Charlie, I was wearing the two because a little Easter egg hint for you.
Speaker 2:We got our boy Then part of honey.
Speaker 3:Betty trees then a tree. They call you. That's it. That's it. Thanks for having me. This is a master.
Speaker 1:Grow up cheese botanicals, yeah father three yeah thanks, samuel Noah Beautiful life.
Speaker 3:Vanessa.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, oh good, lovely family. Thanks for making it all the way down, man. We were excited to meet you and we're always, you know we feel blessed to get growers on the show. It's.
Speaker 1:It's awesome like yeah, yeah, so something I'm not good at yet, I'm trying, but I'm growing this white truffles and some motor breath right now. I'll send you some photos, I don't know. I feel like I've been trying to mess with the pH, like dialing that in, because I feel like my water is really hard, mm-hmm. Just get a good pH tester. I got yeah, I'm working on that. I have one. I have one. I feel like I'm just learning how to use it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just YouTube videos. That's how I learned.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 3:Now you can just ask Google what to do, and yeah they're looking pretty beastly.
Speaker 1:You're right, I shouldn't like. I'm figuring it out, it's only my second run.
Speaker 2:I think you're doing pretty good and I mean, you know, I, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sure most growers feel like they're never like mastered it, like there's always, it's always like fuck could have done that, or I'll be awesome surprise, I'm even.
Speaker 3:I'm even on the show.
Speaker 2:We're so humble dude, yeah, yeah, no, you you've been. I mean, a lot of people may not know you. We know the trees name. It's like, from our understanding, you do a lot more B2B right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you work with some big brands like black market caramel, right yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I currently I grow for caramel.
Speaker 1:Right now, shut up to the caramel boys and you and Billy have a history right Mistaken, you guys are friends.
Speaker 3:We're friends but just just met inside the industry. Yeah, billy drew, oh, we Dustin. They're all cool, great guys. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So wait to you. You have two micros, or no?
Speaker 3:so I started with trees and just recently Me and my business partner, mike, got a new. How big is your canopy At the new place? It's 5200 square feet. So we got All right. It's news so like I don't know off the top of my head.
Speaker 2:I'm. Where's the new one?
Speaker 1:Yeah um where you growing out of.
Speaker 3:Well, I've my first location trees that. That one is in Brantford and that's just small like total canopy. I'm just shy of the 2150 and I actually went up.
Speaker 1:You doubled up, though that's yeah.
Speaker 3:I actually go to triple in some locations really. Yeah, but I don't like it's too hard on the room.
Speaker 1:Like vertical. Yeah, you should blow it up like vertically in the stock. It Crazy dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, but and then I just recently in October Actually I got the new spot, which that one's just one level that was just one. Yeah, and we actually just had our second harvest there. Congratulations, yeah, yeah, so it's going good, yeah man, that's awesome, dude.
Speaker 2:How long you've been growing trees for?
Speaker 3:Well, I was growing in my basement, for I don't even know the years, to be honest. Yeah it's been more than 10 years now, I think, but I mean when I was in high school growing inside like the park so you're on by the first train you grew. Himalayan gold.
Speaker 2:That's very cool man. That's fucking sick, yeah. So like I don't know if you want to just share a little bit about, like, what your Techniques are. I don't know, like everyone's kind of got their own method to the madness, but I mean you, you're so kind and generous enough to show all and yeah, what did you bring in for us today?
Speaker 1:I'm sure some some treats there.
Speaker 3:Maybe I'll roll something up, yeah okay, so this is a bunch of stuff. This is a pinnacle marker from the marker.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of buzz on that train right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow Again, the names for all these were super fitting. Like that definitely smells like you know, little dry erase Sharp beer or something like that. Whoa interesting. I feel like I'm gonna love it. I've always said that I love that aroma.
Speaker 3:That one's the cab junkie.
Speaker 2:Yes, this one was probably the best looker Wow of the the crew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which one's your favorite of these ones?
Speaker 3:of these ones, this is, it would be this one your babies. Actually I like the permanent marker you like the permanent marker. Yeah, it doesn't really. It's probably not the most showiest.
Speaker 1:Let's give it a try. That's the beauty. I really definitely delivers on that, like burt rubber.
Speaker 3:But, I really like this one too.
Speaker 1:This is the apple fritter crosses it'll sitles is one of my favorite all-time strains bro. Like I can't even tell you how much I like that strain so big shout out to Billy because he gave me some of these cuts. Oh did he nice man, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2:I just having like a funny memory. Sorry that you don't hear that as much.
Speaker 1:Passing around the bag.
Speaker 2:Well, I just remember like I used to live with my brother and you know, obviously, kind of the black market days. I just remember, you know, and homie would show up and I could just hear I was there half the time. Yeah, but that that sound is just. It's like a nostalgic sound to me, I guess in a funny way. Old school it's nice to see we've been at bags.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the the cap junkie I'm actually releasing with a Primo in the spring and big shout out to primo because well, yeah, so the primo family.
Speaker 1:That's another family business right and they grow in a well Ontario right yeah.
Speaker 2:That's dope. So that'll be the first kind of I mean again, you, the people have smoked your flower out in the market, for sure by us, some of your partners, but I'll be awesome to kind of see the trees brand out there, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, one day, yeah, oh yeah, you need a hand.
Speaker 2:You got it.
Speaker 3:So I actually At the same time I just was starting with Carmel permanent markers so sticky bro.
Speaker 1:It's crazy.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you, no worries, I really stop with the black market that's right, I remember.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I am the consignante. You did the banjo right.
Speaker 3:Banjo. Yeah, wow, I was like actually had my name on it, so I was like whoa, this is one of my trophies. Actually, I got a pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Oh, because it says she's mechanical.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess you got like recognition.
Speaker 1:I think I was asking you that before we kind of um, you know, I jumped on the pod like is it ever weird to kind of be the public master or like and the bridesmaid and ever the bride kind Of thing, or is it like doesn't bother you? You're saying that right, it's like whatever man Good weeds, good weed and like. Yeah, I guess, if somebody like black market or Carmel, like these aren't like Slouch brands, right, so like, if they want to work with you, then there's something cool there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they're just. They're awesome people to work with, so yeah man.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, man. That's so cool. I remember when we grabbed these. I'm such a cool concept, I think it's. It's great again whenever you know it's all family. It tries to be at least the smaller producers and bringing people out and you know, getting people and lifting them up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and, honestly, if it wasn't for probably Carmel, I probably wouldn't. Maybe it got into there, right? So it's all about your track record, yeah, and like who you know in this industry, because yeah, networking and shit right yeah, cuz I know a lot of people who do have good weed but I just can't get rid of Really.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting.
Speaker 3:And it's and it's a ruthless market, like deals fall apart.
Speaker 1:You think some people don't get paid and shit. I've been here, yeah well, I've, I've.
Speaker 3:I've honestly, I've only worked with good people. Ontario micro growers. Oh yeah, they're solid yeah like I worked with them as well.
Speaker 1:They had a unicorn. A unicorn truffle that I really liked, good when it was fresh. But yeah, I know those guys are nice, they're cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah so. But yeah, I've heard, I've heard people not getting paid, so like no man, I think that goes like any business.
Speaker 1:They make sure you like, just like, do your research and here you're working with it. Oh yeah, I don't know. I know it sounds simple, but, um, trust your gut and stuff too, like I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw some video on on LinkedIn. Sorry, let's go on. No, no.
Speaker 1:I don't know like there's this one.
Speaker 3:I don't know anything, I don't know any names, I just it's one. I don't even know if it's a deep fake, but if Some big CEO I don't know even know I think it was in the state somewhere said let's not pay the little guys because they just can't survive if, if they can't continue, then like they're not gonna come after us right, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:I don't even know if that was real. You know, it's like a video I saw and like and like I could see myself being in that situation, like oh wow, you know right.
Speaker 2:Well, there was, like I was, quite a while ago. I, it was the Canadian CEO, who they have the ankle bite or comment, so you're not too far off, right? Um, I think there'll always be a place for it. Again, like I said, not everyone wants to smoke the booth, right? Like no, no joke, right Like there's always gonna be a market for fire weed, as far as I know, I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% yeah 100% yeah, so I guess just dialing it back to like you started growing. How do you get to this point where you're like fuck, I'm gonna mark partner up with your partner. Mic Shout out to Mike, yeah, yeah so to. Mike and kind of join on this crazy ride.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, I, I really I just I don't know. I used to work construction and I had a decent job before and I legit.
Speaker 1:That's what you used to do before you Grew weed. Yeah.
Speaker 3:All right, like I.
Speaker 1:like it was unionized like trade, like like skilled trades and shit.
Speaker 3:I was a trim carpenter actually.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I did a lot of baseball indoors.
Speaker 1:But you work with your hands and I guess, growing, there's a lot of working with your hands. All right, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2:no, and you probably got to build out your rooms right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course, and like I mean, I was growing as I was like, of course. I figured yeah, I didn't just like all of a sudden cut off, but like yeah, I just always like and I was always like that.
Speaker 1:There's a hobby and you're like I'm gonna do this for a living.
Speaker 3:So how do you do?
Speaker 1:you transition though, like how did you just like? That's a big decision, dude, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know, one day I just said this is like not what I want to do and like, honestly, I went back and forth. My brother has a construction company and I went back and forth To like back to this, back to this, yeah, and like I mean, my brother is awesome, it's just it was construction again, you know.
Speaker 1:I hear you. There's no passion there. You're passionate about weed. Is that you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. And like I mean big shout out to my parents because they definitely helped me out a lot the in the beginning, and like I never would have thought because back in high school being in trouble for smoking weed, and like here they are, like they support you, yeah, yeah. So big shout out to them.
Speaker 1:That's awesome man. And like we're lucky, our mom supports us too. And like yeah, Um, I can't imagine that be weird to like not be able to be honest with your parents. Yeah, I do or be like proud about it.
Speaker 2:So, dude, some people's parents disown them. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:You know, to this day my dad actually comes and helps out and cleans up, cleans up the rooms.
Speaker 1:Oh no shit. Yeah, on the weekends Cool man pops comes and hangs out with you. Yeah, like helps chip in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, family friend Kathy comes to help him as well. So like, yeah, like.
Speaker 2:And like I gotta.
Speaker 3:I gotta give all the shout outs to that, because like it's not just me there. There's people who help no no, no, no, no, no, no, I started us and like, yeah, I just I'm surprised to at least not that I know of you know but, um, big shout out to Jess. She's, she works at trees, she's, she's been there since like in the very beginning and it was really really rough.
Speaker 1:How many staff you have.
Speaker 3:Um, Jess is mainly the only one there.
Speaker 1:It's you and Jess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, no, not the second spot. The second spot has actually taken me away a lot more, but like I mean I'm there in back like there's always fires to be put out, but anyways, jess, 100%. And then Jacob, he's at the new spot. I met him recently. He's awesome. We got Chirica there, we got uh Catherine and we got Anton another great guy.
Speaker 2:No man that's friend of mine. That helps out a lot so nothing great happens on the accord of one person. Man, I think that's awesome. You got to shout out your people yeah there's gonna be shuttles, as I remember, people. Quickly shout out our team here, richard and Carly, for the great job they do. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you guys too, for sure, and our great Cosmic Charlie's, like I feel so blessed. You can't make uh great things happen without good people.
Speaker 1:Megan Lauren Louise Jack Shaquille Daniel.
Speaker 2:It's probably hard from like, let's say, for instance, your dad, to like look at the weed and be like, wow, my son's doing a great job. But he must be proud of you, man, because, like I don't know, I think that's fire weed. I really I haven't blazed in about a week now and I really want that's the permanent market. I rolled up a sailboat, nice.
Speaker 1:The sailboat where you put the two papers together and then you'll like to the triangle off. I don't know if you guys saw that.
Speaker 3:Wasn't it just an L-P.
Speaker 1:Yeah, an L-P, I guess, but I instead of the L-P.
Speaker 3:But then you like yeah, you gotta trim down, and then trim it like a sailboat. The backwards joint.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to fuck with those you want to show me how to fuck with those. Yeah, 100%, let's do that on the next segment. All right, let's go try this. Uh, I don't even remember what I rolled up permanent market.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Thanks, ben, we're gonna be back. We're gonna be back with.
Speaker 1:Ben Howdy buddy, where are you on Instagram, ben Pondavi?
Speaker 3:Uh, yeah, but you follow trees, botanical, see. Each can of this is a new spot.
Speaker 1:See, that's you yeah, cannabis, that trees cannabis. Yeah, we're right back up, man Awesome.
Speaker 2:Welcome back, shawnee and Benny. We back you. Look lit buddy. How was that?
Speaker 1:I wanted to smoke it so bad. So I'm exhausted, I like, uh, my son had me up at four in the morning today. I know you know about this ban Right, you have three kids or whatever.
Speaker 3:You have a big shout out to my wife, my wife.
Speaker 1:All me too, shout out to my wife as well. I, I was just up, I guess I laid in bed or whatever because I tried to help out, but the kid was freaking out and wanted his mom. I'll go sometimes, but, um, that's why I'm especially high. I think, yeah, that makes sense, you're riding the other way, I'm riding it, but I'm juiced on Diet Coke and permanent marker. Now, nice, I gotta say that was delicious dude, really nice man, remember, yeah, yeah is that something we might see uh in in in the uh rotation somewhere?
Speaker 3:I mean never, say never.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it like again it what a one strain of the year, I think somewhere. Yeah, a different cut though.
Speaker 3:Like a different cut. They're all different cuts, of course. Well, I mean, some of them are, I'm sure, maybe the real cut. Yeah, yes, yeah, no fair Thelmumbo, jumbo, all the, the numbers, the string names.
Speaker 1:I'm glad we met you, though, man. You grew a really nice weed. I feel like if I was gonna work with somebody, I'd maybe think about working with you. No, that's nice to hear yeah man, I mean that, like you know, if I put like a cosmic charlie, you know brand together, I would, uh, I would consider it.
Speaker 3:Totally man. Yeah, yeah, what would it be? Cosmic buds? No, you gotta sound something a little nicer than that, because how much do you buy from you is?
Speaker 1:it four pounds or something. It's like four pounds I'd have to buy from you minimum or something to make it worth your time. How many pre rules could I make it a four pound?
Speaker 3:for you any amount you want.
Speaker 1:Oh well, you have to have the proper license. I love you. I love you, buddy, I will figure out. Cosmic crisp, cosmic crisp, your Joker, oh, the, what the? The apple fritter maybe.
Speaker 2:Fubby, and if you don't know about those apples, go by a fucking apple cosmic crisp.
Speaker 1:Definitely mad far and a scene on that. I look for it. I'm we're gonna try. Can we try that next? I think I have. I put it in my pouch. Which one was that I'm gonna roll that up? That bulls ittles thing Is that you said it was your favorite.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go on my favorite one, just keeping it close in the patch.
Speaker 3:You got to break the bud, though. Break the bud.
Speaker 2:I will.
Speaker 3:It's fresh.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I would say, like each of those, like after inspecting, and again, like I, I'm gonna try, we'll try them at some point. They all had like lots of all the boxes ticked and in their own right you know what I mean like the turfs are there. I'm watching guys blaze like that ash was there.
Speaker 1:It's sticky dude smells great. I know you're saying it's fresh. There's like definitely got a beautiful stickiness to it, which I love, and I feel like zittles always has this structure with that really like long dense, like Coney kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yum you know, break that up by hand. No, no, no, no, no, but I like to like take it off the stock you know no, no right which which of these is your favorite? I really like the permanent marker. Yeah, but the apple fritter zittles is very nice. That was my yeah that's.
Speaker 2:I mean, both of those are yeah, but I mean I'm gonna squirrel some away.
Speaker 1:How many lights you have in your canopy, man, you know? I guess it's hard to like the math.
Speaker 3:I can do the math. I mean inside one, inside Kitchener. If you're talking HBS lights, well, some of the rooms are HBS, some of the rooms are HBS LEDs, some of them are straight LEDs, it's kind of oh, you have a mix, you have a party max. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just Just to get by for now, but the intention is to go all of LED like I really like LED.
Speaker 2:Thanks, yeah, yeah, no, I can't wait to try that, and you're growing in Rockwell or soil um, why I either Coco or Rockwell.
Speaker 3:I flip flop on back and forth. Interesting Coco, I don't know. Clean clean up wise is better, definitely better than Rockwell. The thing is with Rockwell I mean, if you lose it, you've lost it. For the right. Them like the moisture content right. I mean Coco's a little bit more forgiving and I actually just like Coco. But I've actually done a comparison test right, and Rockwell tested higher. Okay, yeah, and I got exactly the same amount, but even the feeds were exactly the same like stronger turf percentages and more TG kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:So how cool is that?
Speaker 3:the deli's little things, I mean, maybe it was just specifically those buds that were tested, but consistently, because I did more than one test. It was higher by like 2%, but I still like Coco better.
Speaker 2:That's wicked cool man. Sorry, I'm always just blown away. You can go so deep into it and I just I don't even pretend I know anything about growing, because I don't so sometimes I feel like that I'll be honest.
Speaker 3:I tell everyone, like, if I don't know what's going on, I just look it up on YouTube and I'm not even like being funny, like that's really what I do. That's fucking awesome like on Google.
Speaker 1:That's the best way to be man, be curious, realize you you know, get what are your top three strains of all time, like your personal favorite smoke. What are you? What Terps are you're like? What is your jam Like? What are your flavors?
Speaker 3:I'm not good with the Terps Do you know where is your good, the only time I look at the Terps is like when I get like my test back from, like high north, yeah, shadow time north to they, I just look at, oh, that's the percent that. Or like oh, I got that percentage in Terps. Like cuz, that's one of the higher ones, like very enough top five?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, what about? I'll rephrase the question what are your favorite strains? To grow and smoke as a grower, and to smoke is a smoker. That's a good question, right? Hmm, I love three. Give me three. You think about the lock, the jack Clock to jack? I've never tried that before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was. That's an old one from TGA.
Speaker 2:Damn. Maybe it's hard for a grower. Maybe it's like asking you which kid you love the most, like it's probably pretty hard. I Don't know.
Speaker 3:I like the cut of gushers I had. Oh Okay, I had no longer have.
Speaker 1:I had some good gushers Boss. Today I could see that I got eight.
Speaker 3:I actually brought in HLVD at the very beginning. Okay, okay, what's our like it's? It's a vibe. Yeah, it's a viroyd.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I heard about this oh my hop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had that shit in your grove row.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so like when you first start with a micro. That's fuck. Health Canada only gives you one chance to Bring in all your genetics, right. Yeah you just kind of like get all your genetics and you genetics and you declare it right. So I had last minute I just Did a big like just took a bunch as much as I could have cuts and and I brought one in. Wow, and I didn't realize anything until it was like too late and I just Chopped everything down.
Speaker 3:Wow, it called me to go to a nursery and that's for how I got the banjo, and this is why, like I couldn't sell it, crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh man yeah, that's pretty wild dude.
Speaker 1:That must have been fucking terrifying, I guess yeah, yeah, what's been the hardest thing, man, do you think about? Like getting your micros online and getting to? Like the stage you are right now You've been able to wholesale the way you have.
Speaker 3:To be honest, I'm extremely blessed. That's all I can like. The journey was difficult in the very beginning, like Fair enough.
Speaker 1:Like, did it get easier after the first, like the second, to the third facility.
Speaker 3:Well, the second one knew, so like we'll see how it goes. Oh, fair enough. But like the first one, I'd say we're pretty good, like, I mean, like everything's Running as like we're making money that you like want to see it at yeah, and like in this industry, doesn't seem like a lot of people are making the same man, so congratulations for you for doing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I think we're definitely Making good money, but I mean, it's it's not always rainbows and sunshine, especially for like a lot of people like I feel, like I don't like to use the word luck.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But just getting in with some of the brands that right. You feel, yeah, yeah, yeah, very fortunate, because, yeah, it's rough out there. I know firsthand like always man.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the same exactly, I'm not even stone, but they. They say that right, hard work and the collision of luck is Something. But it always takes a little little something in like, honestly, even I think we found this location by sheer luck really I think you're so modest the bed, I feel you.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you did a lot of hard work, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well.
Speaker 1:You guys all know like yeah, you bust your hump to make it was like a reality and not be like you know. Another cannabis company finally for bankruptcy. Yeah, yeah, well, you hear about it in close.
Speaker 3:Well, we're here opinion.
Speaker 1:I said I was gonna ask you about this leveraging the taxes, the excise taxes on these companies, like through the OCS, like through the provincial board. Do you think they should be doing that?
Speaker 3:I don't think any money should ever be taken from yeah it's not fair.
Speaker 1:You're not down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean, if you haven't? I'm always like, if you have an agreement with something, you have to Abide by the agreement. If they know what they're doing, it's not like they were caught by surprise.
Speaker 2:You know like.
Speaker 3:I'm not gonna talk about the really the processing game or judge anyone in the processing game because, like, that's clearly why I'm still at B2B.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I Doesn't matter what part in this industry, it's rough out there. So, yeah, I feel like the government. There's a lot of things like even just like Stuff you have to do for the government that sometimes seems a little bit excessive. Like for the CRA, they have their own division, and then health Canada you have to your own division, and I feel like why don't they just merge together? Oh right, they both.
Speaker 1:They both visit just.
Speaker 2:Not of them. Talk, dude every every level and like.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying anything bad about health Canada, but I just feel like there could be simpler processes.
Speaker 2:They're missing pieces together by not working together. Yeah, and a lot of these, a lot of these small smaller companies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no one's making money right now, Like the margins are so tight, Like for the grower at least you know dude across the board it's.
Speaker 2:I Don't know again. I think they're making money, so that's why?
Speaker 1:how much do you make average per gram, like off the top of your head, I guess you know like, like per yeah how much do you make up a wholesaling average program? I guess I'm sure some fires more than others, depending on the deal, whatever xyz.
Speaker 3:But yeah, well, I like to ball. $3 a gram is always my goal as a farmer. Yeah, okay, and like if right now, if you're getting $3, you're doing very well okay, okay, interesting but like it all depends like some people will pay 325 over. Yeah, like, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure certain vendors get preferred yeah whatever. But I was like average around, like that's what you want to be getting, yeah and then. But like some people, like.
Speaker 3:I mean I sell my product also for Like lower before right, but I kind of draw the line at like. Get that three bucks yeah well, no, it's like I've gone below that, like I'm Like.
Speaker 1:Like, hey, man, if you gotta make the deal happen, you don't make the deal happen. So I hear you. Well, yeah, but is it about it getting old, right, like I think that's a fallacy. And I tell Charlie all the time that cannabis doesn't have a best before date, like I think you and I both know that like, and that it does, that it does yeah, you agree, right, yeah, of course, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's okay to cure a little bit.
Speaker 1:No, it's okay to cure it as long as you're burping it and all that stuff, but I think a lot of these guys aren't doing that in their vaults. In my room and I feel like that's where I see a lot of I've been seeing a lot of brown gross weed I'm not gonna lie, man and yeah, it's all yellow and oxidized and smells weird.
Speaker 2:It's gross.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has that like that flavor to it when you open, like it all smells the same to the sour pickle.
Speaker 1:Sour man. I think it's almost like bad produce, almost, I'm serious but maybe it might be the packaging. That's a culprit of it as well.
Speaker 3:I'll always say the same.
Speaker 1:It's warehousing to find that it's not as bad in the winter as it is in the summer. In the summer if it's really hot, I think that it stresses out a lot of the product that's held in a lot of these middlemen warehousing Situations that we deal with because there's no cold storage.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:I'm getting a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I think it should be kept in an air-conditioned warehouse. But I've been fighting them for them for a long time. I don't get a response, but I think it's a valid argument. I'm sure it'd be really expensive. I was gonna say Fucking.
Speaker 3:Some of the LPs don't even realize, like after it's left them. How do they know the way it's been treated?
Speaker 1:We don't need it to be a refrigerator, but I just don't want it to be fucking like 98 degrees in there, like cooking away.
Speaker 3:No, I agree and like to your point like these, the LPs don't even know what happens. And then they got a complaint that like something's up with their weed yeah, I was being cooked and they have no idea.
Speaker 1:Cooking buddy in an oven. I feel like I think about like amazing weed that's not good after it gets left, and like Homies Trump yeah, there was some. There's been jar inside like a suitcase, you know for too, long and I didn't breathe and I didn't see sunlight for a long time.
Speaker 2:I don't think you want to store your weed in sunlight, though, but no, but I didn't know what you mean.
Speaker 1:It's been. You know what I'm saying. I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:What do you want to see kind of in the market? As you see it, like you're bringing you know Some pretty fire strains as far as I'm concerned, what do you think we could afford to see? And I guess the Ontario market like Whatever has to be done.
Speaker 3:Like I know, there's a lot of other things but the yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, make life easier for you, yeah, I know, but I honestly the THC mumbo jumbo. Yeah, this is you off.
Speaker 3:Well, it's the market. I'm not gonna complain about the market I'm in. I know that's right.
Speaker 1:I was like I changed, but I mean I well, you were telling me you had this horse shawta. There was a horse shawta here that I tried. That was beautiful. It tastes amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah that that can't test over 20.
Speaker 1:So what are you gonna do with it? Around, but it's a phenolhine, basically.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course. Yeah, I keep it around, and but like, am I actually gonna buy? That and just take some space and said Because I got to hold all that stuff in my mother room, I'm gonna my doing holding and I'm never gonna do it, I'm right. So eventually just gets chopped.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you just constantly grow it just to see how it produces. You know that's fun though. Yeah, that's the fun part 100% I like the phenolhines. The phenolhines are cool.
Speaker 1:So you do that. Your responsible for that to announce, obviously that's your responsibility.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so like I have a huge genetic bank that I brought in before, so like you mentioned. Yeah, so like I have like crosses I did before, Okay and are you breeding a bit too? Yeah, I have. I have actually done some breeding and I actually brought a cool strain with the apple fritter crosses it all.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's your your cut.
Speaker 3:I Actually got this cut, this cut.
Speaker 2:Summer from silly. Yeah, he said he's working on something with the fritter, with the bird. Yeah, yeah, yeah, super cool, yeah I, yeah, I'm gonna scrap some of those nuggets for sure, okay we can't wait to smoke this.
Speaker 1:You have to hear the feedback episode because I guess we're like, almost done. That's pretty funny. It'll be a to be continued.
Speaker 2:Follow trees, cannabis trees, botanicals. What's that? What's the handle?
Speaker 3:at trees botanical at trees botanical.
Speaker 2:Grab yourself some, some of their bags. They're working with primo caramel Ben smart.
Speaker 1:It's a great weed man. Ben found a v master grower, trees botanical man. It's been so nice getting to know you, dude. Thanks for coming by on the pod tonight.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thanks for having me guys. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Well, until next time, I look forward to your next project that comes up.
Speaker 3:Thank you, sir. I want to see you back with your name, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't forget to look out for the new Tangering dream live resin she's, she's.
Speaker 2:What's that guy gotta do to get a shisha on here?
Speaker 1:Maddie, we need the she's bra. We need a she's Bandabi, a band. What do you think? What do you think of the she's? You ever drink that stuff? I have actually Delicious, delicious trees with an approved Signing off higher orbit. Until next time I'm free to tanicles. Thanks, guys, thanks, love you, benny.
Speaker 3:Thanks.
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